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10/05/2011 12:38 PM
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Thanks all for recent responses. I've also used Excel and found it ok- best bit was the ability to use it to calculate cumulative VA & total times. Had not heard of leanvirew - will check it out! - thanks Justin.
Jerry - not possible to share VSMs due to confidential information therein - suggest you get the book "Learning ot See" by Rother & Shook - great step by step directions to create a VSM.
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11/22/2011 04:43 PM
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I agree with David -- I like Quality Companion 3 from the Minitab people. It's easy to use, does a beautiful job of quickly capturing your paper and pencil (actually, your Post-It) VSM's, and integrates with Minitab seamlessly.
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06/13/2012 10:36 AM
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We are currently looking at XSOL software. It is a process mapping software that you can use for value stream mapping, but also as a permanent process map. They are adding more Lean metrics in their release in a few months that will allow you to input both value-added and non-value-added times to each task. The process map can be "published" into an HTML document with links to appropriate forms, website links, Word Documents, etc. It is very sophisticated, and can even be used to create an automated system that alerts employees with tasks they need to complete.
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07/23/2012 11:46 AM
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I have used excel sheet to record my best vsm states as to bench mark certain practices, chalk and talk dose the trick effectively in my org
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07/30/2012 03:42 PM
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The power of using software is more apparent after any initial work with whiteboard or sticky notes. Some automatic calculations are made (helping to avoid errors), capturing Kaizen ideas and adjusting the VSM is easier, and you can easily share data with others to help educate or confirm what was captured (particularly in extended VSM's across multiple sites). I've been in a session where I captured the sticky-note version on the wall in iGrafx, and had the calculations done in the software at the point when someone said "OK, now we need to do some calculations." Full Disclosure: I'm a consultant for iGrafx...
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07/31/2012 11:01 AM
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I use Systems2win Excel Software to electronically document a Value Stream Mapping project. There is a certain learning curve associated with the software, and I find it a little cumbersome to draw in Excel but it is all doable. You can have multi-site licenses and even if you are not interested, the videos on YouTube are worth a look. There is also multiple language support.
I agree with all the others that paper and pencil is the place to start and probably finish. There is nothing like having a map visible, close to Gemba and a marker tied to it to make notes. Leave the person with the computer visit occasionally to update the electronic version.
Disclaimer: I have had a past relationship sales/marketing relationship with the company but not presently under contract.
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07/31/2012 11:01 AM
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I've been at this for a number of years, tried many different methods, and will share my thoughts (not recommendations!)
Pencil and paper is the best way, whether it is butcher paper, post-it notes, or even a dry erase board (although post-it notes allow for change when the team found errors). I can't remember ever doing a VSM on a computer first. The team needs to be engaged and questions need to be visual (and asked). It is the same with problem-solving tools.
However, I also cannot remember the last time I DIDN'T turn the paper product into electronic format (whether it was a picture, scan or re-creation in a software package). It is simply much easier for data intregrity and historical availability/recall (saving rework!)
To that end, I've used basic Excel, Excel with the Systems-to-Win software add-on (quite good and inexpensive), basic PowerPoint, some really junk software that I don't even remember the name of, and iGrafX. Of all of these, I found that iGrafX was the easiest for my team to use, but Excel with the Systems-to-Win add-on software package was the most universal, if we planned on sharing with others to collaborate on improvements (both internal and external to the organization).
Again, these are my experiences and why I feel that way, not recommendations.
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08/01/2012 10:53 AM
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Hello Joseph,
At the moment I am trying to collect comparative data and user feedbacks for filling out a VSM software comparison matrix. To that end I am very much interested in having your opinion about the Excel templates of Systems2win. Could you please state some more details about your experience with the software (e.g., user friendliness, ease of repetitive use, comparison to pencil and paper)?
Thank you very much in advance.
Originally posted by: business901
I use Systems2win Excel Software to electronically document a Value Stream Mapping project. There is a certain learning curve associated with the software, and I find it a little cumbersome to draw in Excel but it is all doable. You can have multi-site licenses and even if you are not interested, the videos on YouTube are worth a look. There is also multiple language support.
I agree with all the others that paper and pencil is the place to start and probably finish. There is nothing like having a map visible, close to Gemba and a marker tied to it to make notes. Leave the person with the computer visit occasionally to update the electronic version.
Disclaimer: I have had a past relationship sales/marketing relationship with the company but not presently under contract.
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08/02/2012 10:37 AM
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Thank you for considering me as a source. Comparative Data sheets as unbiased as they may be intended, seldom end up that way. At some point you have to make choices and at that time you exclude. Bias sets in just as it does playing checkers against yourself. So, I would rather not participate in this type of forum.
However, I would recommend that you download their few trial and experience it yourself. It would be difficult for me to list comparative data starting with pencil/paper all the way to support/upgrades. I have always preferred following the USA Principle in software selection: Understand, Simplify, Automate. So, we go back to that pencil/paper thought as the best way to start. The software should support the process not be the process. I will add though having all the pre-calculated formulas in Excel is a huge plus in the Systems2win Software.
P.S. USA Principle was introduced to me by Dean at Systems2win.
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08/03/2012 11:47 AM
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I agree that butcher paper and post its are the way to go, however to capture electronically after completed I use Microsoft Visio
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08/03/2012 11:47 AM
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Hey Joe! I'll have to reach out to Dean and ask where he got that. I found th "USA" principle in 2001 on a website called ERPfans.com. That is exactly how they had it: Understand, Simplify, and only Automate after the other two have been effectively completed. I used it often in union shops (and still use it today!)
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08/06/2012 11:17 AM
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Mike,
Dean's roots are in ERP and that is where it came from. I use the USA Principle all the time in sales and marketing. Most people/orgs want to jump into the next craze, the next platform to be on the cutting edge. Though a certain percentage of your marketing should be exploring, a large percentage should be mastering what you are presently doing or in other words, standard work. Using the USA principle is a good way of grounding people in the explore stage.
However with that being said, I have thousands of dollars of unused software residing on my computers. More than a couple are relative to this conversation. If only I practiced what I preached!
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08/06/2012 11:17 AM
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A few years ago, iGrafx had me drooling over there package called Process, but then I soon realised that I was looking at the software and other alternatives from my perspective, which I now believe was wrong. Yes, value-stream-mapping software will enable you to produce beautiful maps and will help you capture and calculate accurate data, but I suggest most of this will either gather dust on some corporate database, or will be used to befuddle a passing CEO who hasn't the first inkling about Lean. The use of software also calls into question the underlying thinking about that particular Lean initiative. Does the management think it's the most productive use of resources to let an "expert" do the mapping while the people in the value stream remain "productive"? How does that expert then then get the people in the value stream involved once he is done? Some of you may remember Systems-Dynamics experts trying to explain their simulations and findings to ordinary people. I suspect this could also involve a fearful and resentful "dialogue of the deaf".
Another concern I have about the use of software is its cost. Will a manager, obsessed with not blowing his/her budget, be prepared to spend money on getting everyone along the value stream a licence for that software and the training to become proficient in its use. If everyone who should be involved is not involved in this way, there is a risk of creating an "in crowd", with those outside feeling less than appreciated. This can impede learning which is critical to Lean.
A further concern I have is that software rarely follows Lean's rules of good Visual Control. Are people who are responsible for making the improvements (and here I am assuming it is the people who do the work and not their trainers or experts) willing to access the latest version of the map and data from the corporate database? This takes time which people doing the work rarely have.
The only technology which works, in my opinion, is paper, pencil and post it notes. This is the easiest technology for the Gemba to learn, and for them to get involved in.
Value-Stream Mapping is a powerful tool, but if those wishing to apply it see it as the preserve of experts, and not a way of everyone, and I mean everyone, understanding the Current State, the target or Future State, and the improvements being made to get from one to the other, then it's a waste of time except perhaps for experts who charge billable hours. Value-Stream Mapping is all about discovering, understanding and learning and should not be left solely to experts and their choice of software.
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08/07/2012 11:25 AM
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I'm pretty new to Lean and VSM and so maybe going against the general concensus that paper, pencil and post-its are the rigth way to go with little foundation, but in my short expereince once the map is created using the basic method it then gets transferred into an electronic format for safe storage, further analysis and future review. Our paper based version then hits the bin. So whilst I can support the theory and use of paper, pencil and post-its (it does seem to bring people together in initial VSM effort) I can also support the electronic theory and may see the former as a 'waste' in some cases. For the record we do not currently use a mapping software package, but do use Visio to record process flows and VSM.
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08/07/2012 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by: Mike_Thelen
Hey Joe! I'll have to reach out to Dean and ask where he got that. I found th "USA" principle in 2001 on a website called ERPfans.com. That is exactly how they had it: Understand, Simplify, and only Automate after the other two have been effectively completed. I used it often in union shops (and still use it today!)
I use slightly different wording when looking at any activity: Eliminate, Simplify, Automate - Only in that order.
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08/09/2012 10:36 AM
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Pat... We use the LeanView software for our VSM activities. It's a great package and is integrated into Microsoft Office, Visio, & MS Project. Coupling LeanView with an In-Focus style projector keeps the team members involved.
The ability to do "what-if'ing", along with rapid metrics generation made LeanView a valuable VSM tool. It also permitted members of a VSM team we had to view the map and metrics from different sites real time.
At the completion of one VSM, we were able to generate reports, ID project teams, propose project timeline info(Gantt Chart), and provide Power Point presentations for management in less than 1/2 hour. This software reduced our cycle time for VSM efforts by at least 30%.
It's a nice package and utilizes all elements of MS Office so that data generated by the team is viewable by everyone.
I know this sounds like I'm in the pocket of Blue Spring Software, but I think you should check it out to see if it fits your needs.
ttfn...Bill Lembeck
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08/09/2012 10:37 AM
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Time for a different perspective...
For high-volume repetitive assembly where all products flow down the same pathway with only a few branches, then paper/pencil or sticky notes on the wall are best. And in the databoxes, you can easily capture takt time, cycle time, changeover time, downtime , working time, # operators, etc.
What have you done when it's more complicated than that? Think of high-mix, low-volume value streams.
... hundreds of different products
... dozens to hundreds of different pathways through the processes
... takt time that varies based on highly variable demand volume
... demand that varies daily or weekly
... takt time that varies based on product mix
... changeover times that are variable based on sequence or mix
... shared resources across multiple value streams
How have you captured that and made any sense out of it?
How have you gotten quantitative with the changing metrics for takt? for EPEI?
I do this with software and find it impossible otherwise.
Please, no theoritical answers. What have you actually done?
Phil
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08/10/2012 10:24 AM
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Everybody doesn't have the same situation, but here's my theory: Do it on paper (I use plotter paper as previously suggested, post-its, sharpies, colored dots, etc.). Don't make changes - do it once. (Otherwise you are planning for recycles, which are waste.) To create permanent documentation of the VSM, simply photograph it. Get all the flip charts too. Camera resolutions are such that you can zoom in and read the small writing easily. Why waste all that time with Visio or PowerPoint or whatever just to copy what you already have? My observation is that some people spend way to much time after the VSM event in front of a PC adding no additional value. Instead, why don't you spend that energy actually implementing the process changes that came out of the VSM?
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08/15/2012 04:44 AM
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Eric,
I couldn't agree more. If one of my Sensei's caught me doing a VSM on a computer under any circumstance he would fire me. Wouldn't matter if it was the first, second, or fifth time.
When done electronically, several things happen: You lose the interaction of the experts, you risk someone sitting in an office creating a map without "seeing" the process, and as you pointed out, you are spending time and energy that can better be applied to implementing your future state.
Ken
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08/16/2012 10:31 AM
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I agree about using butcher paper and Post It notes and connecting string for the VSM development. After years of doing so I also began using eVSM to record the results. The software can also be used to do calculations faster once the VSM is input. Storage is then easier and can be sent around. However, it is always easy to "HIDE" the VSM in computers never to be seen again.
VSM software can also be used to develop quick VSMs for analysis and presentations where large teams are not necessary. They can be substituted for wording presentations where pictures are worth thousands of words.
Ron Turkett
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